Even her muscles were unatrophied. #religion. When I lay out the evidence for the (alleged) miraculous phenomena in the latter half of the episode, I blitz through various case studies, scientific studies, and quotes which I said I would post references too here. Never miss a big news story again. I don't understand how it's possible for both those things to be true. conversation that I was a part of here: Bad Apologetics Ep 20 - Miracles & even MORE even NEWER Resurrection evidence where we respond to the Unbelievable? Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Shermer: well the counterfactual what about the christian families who pray for their loved one who's dying from cancer and they just die nothing happens from the prayer that happens all the time. It's not just about the priors, it's the fact that to be consistent, once you raise your prior for one sort of claim you're doing it for many others -- many claims that you probably don't want to accept. We can also ask how the miracle believer handles the many cases where seemingly miraculous things happen and no reported prayer, with disapearing disease without treatment? I am delighted that the board selected Barbara to lead AAU How has the book been received, both in Christian circles and then outside Christian circles? And why aren't there miracle claims of people spontaneously generating electricity? And certainly one shouldn't be willing to upend ones knowledge of how the universe works based on one report by one doctor on one patient. I think it also is evident that the theists aren't serious about studying these things, and are content to believe things on bad evidence. Hey, thanks for listening. If someone says a treatment works, even at the 1% level, it is tested carefully to see if it works -- especially if there are no obvious side effects. Following her M.S. Craig Keener: Greg Spencer is a case of this. in Old Testament from Dallas Theological Seminary, and a B.A.S. This is the reason the specifics matter. perhaps this was the case here either with a longer resolving time (N=11 is not that large)? President Barbara R. Snyder announced today that she will But there, the book is just full, both volumes, full of these remarkable stories like this. Get Charisma's best content delivered right to your inbox! On this episode, she lays out the case for investing more in academic research, and what we may lose if we don't. Subscribe to Big Brains on Apple Podcasts , Stitcher and Spotify. Craig Keener: Probably what surprised me the most was the real evidence for it. I love this Bible study!" A Barbara Sent Home to Die Let me tell you now about a different Barbara, Barbara Cummiskey.2 When she was a teenager, doctors diagnosed Barbara with multiple sclerosis (MS). and Duane Miller (healed from irrevocably damaged vocal chords). And her hands had been curled up so much that every few months they had to uncurl her hands to get the dead skin out. Also we need to know what happens when there is no treatment as a control. Craig Keener: Thanks so much for having me Scott. She heard a voice saying, "My child, rise up and walk." "[5], In 2011, Cleveland.com reported Barbara R. Snyder's total compensation for the year of 2009 was $778,874.[6]. He ended up reading and it led him into a life of scholarship. Although MS can come in milder forms, Barbara's condition deteriorated quickly. become the next leader of the organization that represents the 63 leading [] why are they not healed if the context matters and we're defining a miracle as you know divine intervention not just a highly improbable event then how come there's no divine intervention there and if the answer is well god works in mysterious ways who knows well you know that's kind of a hand wave, Elijah: i think also calling a handwave kind of undermines something is imagine you caught a murderer and uh you saw him shoot a guy and he goes well i i haven't shot anyone before in my life um is that what we're trying to show is these are real examples i can't explain the soldier coming home that that makes perfect sense but what i can say is there was a blind lady and she got prayer and her eyes opened up and she had macular degeneration they can verify that before and afterwards and i'm not sure it's rational to call those uh uh just coincidences. Craig Keener: I think it's true in some places more than in others. Scott Rae: Because I mean by any medical definition she had died. in Old Testament from Dallas Theological Seminary, and a B.A.S. Each of these is far harder than the rather trivial challenges to testing miracle claims. There's a long list of reasons for this poorly understood condition. Bad Apologetics Ep 20 - Miracles & even MORE even NEWER Resurrection evidence, Unbelievable? I mean you could see it, the stories are so compelling that just based on the empirical data that you have, I found the case for miracles pretty hard to refute. It's not impossible under theism, but it is an odd omission and speaks to God's motivation. The James Randi foundation did this as well, with a preliminary test before the more in-depth test. But this one, I think, we were also able to communicate something of guts, heart in the midst of suffering. We can see the stories changing in the telling, being simplified, critical details dropped. And you just Well that was one of the reasons people argued against their reliability. "Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic with multiple sclerosis. It's always possible to ask for more (Couldn't more doctors have seen it? Or even the most dramatic story I found from somebody that I or my wife knows, but this one was particularly mind blowing to me because Antoinette Malumbay was my mother-in-law and Terese is my sister-in-law. What surprised you? public flagship institutions as UCLA, University of Michigan, and the And now she has a Masters degree from the seminary in Cameroon. But I'm grateful for the, the engagement that's come since then because there has been a lot of good engagement and people have taken it seriously and taken to heart some of the arguments in it. Craig Keener, Michael Shermer & Elijah Stephens and a video with Sean McDowell interviewing Craig Keener called Latest Evidence for Modern Miracles. She, first of all she ended up having to flee from the capital where she was teaching French at the U.S. Embassy, sorry, she was teaching English at the U.S. Embassy for Francophone Congolese residents. Of course, it's possible her sight was perfect and declined in the 2 years between the "healing" and the measurement which would call into question the miraculous nature. But in this case, he had to have the medical documentation be he'd been on disability. Tag: Barbara Snyder healing miracle ms. People casually talk about God helping to find their car keys or help their sportsing team win, which are not miraculous but imply the intervention of the agent and thus fall under the same umbrella. That's what he was praying for. Craig Keener: Yeah, and by the time Yeah and eventually it was over a 1000. (Warner Brothers even invited me onto the movie set to watch some of the filming and to meet the engaging actress.) A nice illustration of Even Miracles Take A Little Time-the miracle. Don't presume what I'll believe, show me evidence of an arm growing back first, then perhaps we'll see -- but I'd need the proper controls. Caleb was very nice in pointing out the documentation for the Barbara Snyder case, and correcting me in its reading. There are any examples of this, so see https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/ and https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/full-moon-does-not-affect-mental-health-emergency-room-study-suggests as a couple. Check out https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=control&category_name=&submit=Search to see the value of doing controlled studies in the field of medicine -- and where it goes wrong when people don't do this. Craig Keener: Yeah, I could give you a 1000 pages worth of examples, but I'll tell you one that really blew my mind and that was, because it was something so close to us. and Ada Thompson Professor of Biblical Studies at Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Kentucky. The outcome was either a change in vision or hearing. This shows a profound lack of imagination on the part of the investigators, and I think shows their hand. Just to have the words "inference to the best explanation" that legitimizes the inference that you're making rather than actually being able to use inference to the best explanation. And again, the group that received prayer had better outcomes than the control group. (p. 127). But Barbara Snyder, she had been dying from a severe form of Multiple Sclerosis. A legal scholar, Snyder was the first woman to serve as the Case Western's president. chair James C. Wyant said that Fred DiSantoan alumnus and trustee who begins In Elijah: I think this: the fact that there are fake miracles does not preclude the fact that there can be real miracles. ", "CWRU President Barbara R. Snyder is highest-paid private college president in Ohio", Office of the President: Case Western Reserve University, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barbara_Snyder&oldid=1129564651, Ohio State University College of Arts and Sciences alumni, Presidents of the Association of American Universities, Articles with dead external links from October 2016, Articles with permanently dead external links, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 26 December 2022, at 02:48. I mean these were mainstream Evangelical Christians and anyway, some of the critiques, and actually some of the praises from the Christians showed that they hadn't actually read the book either. The primary studies here are Case Studies, which are some of the lowest and least informative types of studies in medicine (see https://guides.library.stonybrook.edu/evidence-based-medicine/levels_of_evidence) with Meta-studies, Systematic reviews, and Randomized Controlled Studies being the most effective forms. This example is a category 1 miracle claim. He wasn't praying for healing of his physical vision, but when the Lord healed his mind, he opened his eyes and he could see. By this point, she was almost blind and . In And as a Christian I naturally did believe in miracles. Some were tested in persecution. These are two red flags which will need some level of caution in establishing the cause of the condition improving. #media. We originally met when we were, she was an exchange student and I was doing my PhD in New Testament at Duke. Do you have a testimony that is medically verified?. Could you imagine a similar claim written about, say, a homeopathic remedy for cancer? credentials as both a highly regarded research institution and as a place where Lina refuses to let Kathy get any recognition and keeps her behind the scenes, taking all the singing credit for herself. That is their foretaste of God's future promise to us when there's going to be no more sorrow, there's gonna be no more pain. Well I shouldn't say everybody, but lots of people have love stories. And he went to a retreat for the healing of the mind. He became a Christian in 1981 shortly after he decided to investigate Jesus and the Christian faith after his wife became a Christian. And by teacher time it was 200 pages I decided okay, this needs to be a separate book. Visit Pure Flix for access to thousands of faith and family friendly movies and TV shows. Also there is this general trend of naturalism in which you are looked down upon if you believe that the supernatural can occur so there is this whole culture at play where the medical community is working against finding truth". Make sure you see our stories daily directly to your inbox. James points out that God seems to choose not to use all his abilities -- he could heal amputees, even while someone is in an MRI, but chooses note to. So it seems to me you can't discount it all. It's not biased to be skeptical. The current results are suggestive, but are not conclusive. How do we know the initial diagnosis was accurate? The statements about being brain dead are all unsubstantiated -- there was oxygen both from the chest compressions and when he was hooked up to machinery. Given Keener's habits of simplifying and distorting the actual original claims, and the demonstration throughout all of this that his standards for evidence are terribly low, it calls into question is entire 1300 page book on miracles. I don't think they have established a real effect yet, so it's premature to speak about causes. It is quite clear that once you allow one miraculous healing in, using evidence of just one person, then one has to let in a whole host of others. He didn't see any fire so people are getting [inaudible] what's this about? I want to refer our listeners to your two volume series on miracles. She worked as a teacher's aide for Headstart and was a member of St. Mary's Church in Elmira, NY. It also includes the audio recording of Duane Miller, Contains an interview with Bruce Van Natta, the mechanic I referenced who lost most of his small intestines in an accident and was later healed. 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